Following our discussion on tone, what evidence can you find to support the claim that Roethke's Waltz is indeed a happy one. Do you disagree? You can use voice, rhythm and language to support your claim.
Poetry is a deal of joy and pain and wonder, with a dash of the dictionary.
Kahlil Gibran
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I disagree with the fact that My Papa's Waltz is a positive poem or a happy one... There is too much negative vocabulary and it talks about a father who beats his son. I just can't see in that poem something positive. I think this poem is moving and it makes me reflect about the fact that violence exists in our world and we have to denounce it.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, i observed that the first sentence rhyme with the third one and the second with the fourth one. It gives a nice rhythm to the poem when we read it, it's nearly like a song. I think the way the words rhyme gives a nice style to My Papa's Waltz.
Catherine Lacroix
I have to say that I agree with Catherine.
ReplyDeleteI personally find this poem dark.
It presents the innocence of a child, who even though his father is beating him, he still loves him. The child still wants his father's love. The mention of Whiskey and especially
"The hand that held my wrist
Was battered on one knuckle"
seem to imply that the father is aggressive.
The mother that "Could not unfrown itself", can imply that she sees what is happening, doesn't like it but doesn't do a thing about it. Something that happens too often everyday.
At my first reading, the poem « My Papa’s Waltz » from Theodore Roethke sounded to me like a heavy thing; a sad story from childhood.
ReplyDeleteThen, we discussed about it, and at home, I had a second look at it by my own.
Now, it seems to me like the opposite, it sounds like a great story full of a spontaneous joy. The sad face of it still is there, because it’s like if the only moment the child was having fun with his father was when this last one was drunk… or at least feeling enough to dance in the kitchen.
Some of the words could appear as negative on the first reading, but when you give the poem a second chance, and you close your eyes to imagine to little boy dancing with his father; they are not negatives anymore, they’re just part of the description.
The little boy don’t seems to mind about those moments, where whiskey is in cause of his father sudden animation; he just looks to happy to care about it.
That’s why, to me, “My Papa’s Waltz” is partly sad and partly full of joy.
Marie-Eve Pilote
It's a matter of perspective: if you look at the poem from your objective eyes, you might think it's an unhappy one. But it is the child who is speaking in the poem. And he is happy. The third line : "But I hung on like death", seems like the kid is struggling. But the last line: "Still clinging to your shirt", shows that he is struggling not to let go off his dad. He wants to be with him. It's a rough dance but the kid sees it like a game. The author chooses to say something like : "With a palm caked hard by dirt, Then waltzed me off to bed" instead of: Your unfriendly hand, pushing me back to my room.
ReplyDeleteAs I said above, it is a question of perspective.
Jay
I feel the same way about that poem as Marie-Eve did.
ReplyDeleteI think the wost thing that exist in the world is children who are either beaten or raped. But in this poem, when you look further than the choice of words or the actions as they speak, you see a feeling that everyone of us know.
The kid is turning the sad strory into a beautiful one juste because of the way he express the feeling of hanging to life.
The poem breaths by its own. It flows as if we could hear the rythm of the dance.
the sentence that touched me the most was "then waltzed me off to bed,still clinging to shirt" it gave me shivers. he loves his father so much that no matter what he does, he will still hang on to him...no matter what...he'll hang on!
That poem reminds me of the half empty/half full glass question =]
ReplyDeleteThough on first glance I too, thought it was about the innocence of a child amidst violence
Then again, having a vocabulary could help understand some parts better
I found the poem was more negative and the vocabulary helped me make my decision. The verses "We romped until the pans/ slid from the kitchen shelf", "The hand that held my wrist/ was battered on one knuckle" and the last stroph is clearly negative.
ReplyDeleteBut I actually enjoyed this poem, compared to the others we studied. It leaves the impression of "flowing", in that, I mean it is easy to read, and it could be made in a song, I think.
Yep.
Valérie Goulet Talbot
I think this poem is really weird...The choice of word is really hard and rough, but the child seems to enjoy these moments with his father. The truth is, I understood the poem as a child beaten by his father, but you explained that it is not something bad going on in the poem...It is quite confusing but I still think it is a rough poem about a very dark subject.
ReplyDeleteMarie-Christine Bélanger
I won't add a lot to the discussion since I think the same as quite everybody. As Jay wrote, it is a matter of perspective.
ReplyDeleteIn the reader position, I can see the father dancing with his son in a rough way, too drunk to realize he is hurting him.
In the child view, I see all the love he has for his father, the only love he knew from him. Maybe he is not a perfect model or a hero, but he is HIS father. According to the kid, it is a happy memory of the time he spent with him. The child needs attention and since it is the way he knows his father, he just lets him dance, happy to hung on in this Waltz.
The narrator is at the same time the child and the writer. In this way, I feel hesitation about the poem. The vocabulary used in it has a negative tone to me, but the essence of it makes me think of nostalgy.
For the rhythmical, I'm not sure but it seems there are 6 feet per verse and a Waltz, sorry for my in-expertise in music, can be count like : one, two, three. one, two, three ... (3/4 time). The poem can have quite the same tempo than the waltz, or maybe not.
Theodore Roethke's poem "My Papa's Waltz" was indeed joyful. However when you read the poem, it seems more like a dark and sad one. At first, we are lead to believe that the father's behaviour is rather shabby, yet it isn't. Afterward, you realize that the author is using figures of speech. I believe I have found one which is an antithesis, for instance: "You beat time on my head
ReplyDeleteWith a palm caked hard by dirt,
Then waltzed me off to bed"
First I looked up the word Walzed and got this: If you say that someone waltzes somewhere, you mean that they do something in a relaxed and confident way. So, if you beat time meaning your counting time... on someone's head, plus, with dirty hands, then you go and put that person to bed in a relaxed way, it would be kind off contradictory don't you think! This is why I believe that it is an antithesis. Am I right??? Overall the poem was very good for it takes many readings before you fully understand why it is a positive and not a negative poem.
A.K.A.................................................................................Sam Clarke
As Jay and Sandrine and maybe many others, I also think all our answers can be found in the perspective of this controversial poem from Theodore Roethke's " My Papa's Waltz ".
ReplyDeleteI really think that the perspective is really the cause of all of our questions. You can see the poem in many ways.
On one side we have the negative way where you only see the words and not it's subjectivity. We see " Drunk,Beat,Dead ". They are all negative words so we make a false assumoption.
On the other way of thinking you can read a nice story about a kind who, like Sandrine said, sees is father like the most beautiful person in the world, even if he's not perfect.
I agree the fact that this poem is a positive one.
Francis Goyer.
I enjoyed reading your comments and I'm happy to see that you all reacted to this poem We'll discuss this some more in class.
ReplyDeleteGood work.
O.Pelletier
At first I perceived this poem in a negative way, but after listening to the teacher, I now, think that this poem can be either positive or negative. Yes, I agree that the alcohol problem of his father is not something that is positive. But we can see, as the teacher said, that the boy enjoyed his time with his father, even if his mother doesn't approve. So we can say that this poem is a little bit weird, in the way that we can’t say if this moment is a bad or a good one.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, I really love the subject of the alcohol and the childhood to denounce this important problem that many children live every day. And as Catherine said, I love the rhythm of it.
Even if a read hard the poem I can't find a positive idea.When I read it I felt like the child was telling us a bad story on is past . The only thing that is maybe positive is that the author can express on his paper a bad memory and maybe it had helped him to liberate himself from a darkside of his life .
ReplyDeletealexandra kafant
I think this poem is a huge cry from the heart coming from the boy. He tries to express his feelings through the lines, and express his anger toward his father. He also tells his father was beating him. The poem is completly the little boy's feelings. He lets his pain go out. Like previous poems, this one is kind of dark, but touching.
ReplyDeleteMarie-Philippe Busque
Seriously, after reading all the posts, I think I kind of agree with all of them... At first reading, I felt like the authors wanted to hide a dark message (like the father beating the son) behind the dual meaning of words. That by using words with two meanings he could have it look like a happy waltz but was trying to tell a story of pain and of love. The son loving inconditionnaly his father even if he gets beaten, and the father being drunk and rough... But it could be happy to, the two of them just dancing... Still, I felt like there was to much negative words to be a coincidence...
ReplyDelete